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 Post subject: Microsoft to Windows XP diehards: Just under 3 more years
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:46 am 
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Just a debate that was happening over the weekend and I couldn't give much input, but whilst it was happening one of the things that came to my mind was i'd love to hear cons ideas on this subject.

In the discussion someone said "In all reality whilst you may think windows 7 is amazing and despise Vista, Windows 7 was a service pack for Vista but Microsoft needed to repackage and re-market Vista which is why they bought it out as a new operating system"

What are peoples opinions on that statement?

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7/Vista
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:00 am 
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It's one helluva service pack!! :fonz:

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7/Vista
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:41 am 
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idontfeardeath wrote:
Just a debate that was happening over the weekend and I couldn't give much input, but whilst it was happening one of the things that came to my mind was i'd love to hear cons ideas on this subject.

In the discussion someone said "In all reality whilst you may think windows 7 is amazing and despise Vista, Windows 7 was a service pack for Vista but Microsoft needed to repackage and re-market Vista which is why they bought it out as a new operating system"

What are peoples opinions on that statement?


It's all true.

The fact is Vista had such a truly awful, terrible reputation for being a resource hog and running slow as sludge that Microsoft launched the Vista service pack as a full new OS release and they called it Windows 7 purely for marketing reasons. It was Vista v1.5. with the top twenty annoyances removed as complained about by Vista users.

Vista's reputation was so awful it's hard to describe here... forum posts in their thousands said nothing but stuff like 'tried Vista, OMG it's so sloooooow I've gone back to XP' and such was public demand for XP, the OS Microsoft have been trying to kill for years at least since January 2008, that MS were forced to rethink their plans and announce what was to be the first extension of XP's lifespan. People who trialled Vista found that their previous software wouldn't run due to compatibility problems or ran so slowly it was infuriatingly pointless so inevitably they all went back to XP. You even started seeing a 'Downgrade to XP' option on new PCs and when that included major players like Dell, traditionally one of MS' most supportive partners, you know you're screwed. PC buyers were happy to pay an extra £30 to get the old operating XP system instead.

It was a massive disaster for Microsoft who'd put an awful lot of time, money and effort into Vista and something had to be done to salvage the situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7/Vista
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:16 am 
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Microsoft to Windows XP diehards: Just under 3 more years' support

'Eventually, there comes a time to give us more money'


By Kelly Fiveash • Register



Microsoft continued its campaign yesterday to convince stuck-in-the-mud Windows XP customers to upgrade to Windows 7, the company's current operating system.

Windows XP is now 10 years old, and for some, it's still going strong. So Microsoft has reminded those users that support for the OS that refuses to die will end in less than 1,000 days.

Yep, that's still about two years and nine months from now, which may in fact leave some continuing to have warm fuzzies for XP until, well, 2014.

"Wouldn't it be great if the glory days lasted forever? But reality is trophies get dusty, records are broken, and what it took to be the best 10 years ago just isn't enough for today's standards," wrote Microsoft's Stephen Rose in a blog post on Monday.

"Things get better, faster. And eventually, it's time to move from good enough to something much better."

Support for XP officially ends on 8 April 2014, when security patches and hotfixes for all versions will be canned for good.

Unsurprisingly, Rose took the opportunity to big up Windows 7, which Microsoft's Steve Ballmer separately announced yesterday had now reached 400 million licence sales worldwide since its retail release in October 2009.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 7/Vista
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:24 am 
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Here we go again... Microsoft try to kill XP. Again. :rolleyes: And it'll only be six years since they first tried to end support and security updates for it.

Wonder if they'll change their minds? Again. :snigger: Their last excuse was netbooks and the fight against bargain bottom-end Linux machines, when in truth Vista was just too big and slow to run on the netbook hardware that ran Linux quickly and XP well enough. The exact same problem people had with their desktops...

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft to Windows XP diehards: Just under 3 more years
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:07 am 
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Vista was MS's first real attempt to provide a full multi-media supporting GUI that can evolve into something less point and click controlled. They got it wrong, that's for sure.

MS know the future is thin clients. Again. It is clear when you look at the latest Office suit, that they are gearing themselves up for life in the Cloud, thus I expect MS8 (rumoured to be not far away) to be less focused on application support and more focused on graphical interface bells & whistles and better multi-media. A process stutteringly started by the launch of Vista.

I also expect to see Windows developers move(d) to the 64bit version of the platform (assuming this can be used to develop for all other variants of Windows), so there will be some divergence between the 64bit and 32bit platforms (I would be surprised to see a long shelf life for 32bit Visual Studio, for example).

Given all of the above, XP will have little relevance to the brave new world the entrepreneurial geeks want to foist upon us to enrich our lives and their cash cows.


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft to Windows XP diehards: Just under 3 more years
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:11 pm 
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O-Dog wrote:
Vista was MS's first real attempt to provide a full multi-media supporting GUI that can evolve into something less point and click controlled. They got it wrong, that's for sure.

MS know the future is thin clients. Again. It is clear when you look at the latest Office suit, that they are gearing themselves up for life in the Cloud, thus I expect MS8 (rumoured to be not far away) to be less focused on application support and more focused on graphical interface bells & whistles and better multi-media. A process stutteringly started by the launch of Vista.

I also expect to see Windows developers move(d) to the 64bit version of the platform (assuming this can be used to develop for all other variants of Windows), so there will be some divergence between the 64bit and 32bit platforms (I would be surprised to see a long shelf life for 32bit Visual Studio, for example).

Given all of the above, XP will have little relevance to the brave new world the entrepreneurial geeks want to foist upon us to enrich our lives and their cash cows.


Vista was too typical of MS' previous stuff... too big and much too bloated, it's no wonder it crawled on average hardware of the day. And how rushed must it have been after the Longhorn failure that got scrapped? They just probs got the first working update out that they could and figured early adopters + a service pack would fix it, only it was too badly damaged in the eyes of consumers by then to be salvaged. I think they got caught out by the very same thing that killed Vista after it's troubled launch... what people already had - for the first time - was already more than good enough for the tasks for which they were needed for. They could do their business and play the latest 3D games and resented having to pay out for new hardware for a prettier Start button to launch things from. In fact, IIRC wasn't XP SP2 made only as a result of scrapping what would have been the Longhorn release? They'd have left it pretty good but left you a reason to upgrade to the next one otherwise... and gone were the days when people looked forward to buying the next version of Windows... especially after XP SP3 made a lot of things worse, breaking hardware and software compatibility clearly on purpose, and not for technical reasons (imo).

But I'm not sure Windows 7 is going to convince many to upgrade for the same reasons... my new PC is a monster running Win7 64bit but it's no faster than my much older and slower XP Pro rig - and that's Microsoft all over. Windows 8 next year - not looking forward to the Win8 era of writing stuff purely in HTML and CSS either... wtf kind of developing you going to get there then? Java is the perfect lesson to learn here, if it's slow you can't write anything good in it, though I'm more pleased they've now let on that good old C++ and traditional compilers etc will still be available. I won't be upgrading in a hurry though, 'cause I think it'll probably be a stop-gap measure until (the already talked about) Win9 arrives finally containing some of the Longhorn features that MS promised way back in the early 2000s.

The new version of Office is going the same way, down the end of an old telephone wire err... in 'the cloud'. It's going to be $15 per month plus you'll still require the proper desktop version installing too for the top end packages as they include it with the service. I just don't see it taking off though, not as people expect it might or would like it to.

Thin clients have failed so many times before that I have lost count. People just don't want slow hardware that doesn't do the job particularly well and that they can't do anything else on, especially when it's tied to 'the cloud' EG a phoneline (in most cases) and depending on your ISP, time of day, any local congestion, equipment and cable thefts (which are on the rise), etc. - and your entire admin department can do their days work that you're paying them for... or not if it's down. No business with a competent IT department is going to accept those terms... it'd be an insane piece of business imo! Even when thin clients were backed by very powerful on-site servers they didn't catch on and they had cable connections with the IT bod right there in the building and most companies thin clients I'd heard of abandoned the idea years ago.

64bit had failed before it started almost imo, it's old tech and still isn't the default option, so far at least, though it's growing slowly so maybe next version or the one after will get critical mass. But it's a catch 22... developers and publishers won't make the switch, not outside of flagship products anyway, because there's not enough market for it - half the world runs 32bit windows, while consumers aren't that interested while there's no must have software that they need 64bits for. Obviously there's a niche market for 64bit stuff where speed or power is required but the money and power to drive adoption is in the mass consumer stuff... and I think MS may have made a mistake in doing a 32bit version of Vista and especially Windows 7. The 64bit version does 32bit compatibility very well so why fragment the market? I think people assumed that they really needed to have 32bit 'cause the high street advice was (is?) 'if you don't know you need 64bits get 32bits' - so people did. If/when the next version is 64bit only then the developers will all move over and we have ourselves a change but until then there's still more than twice as many 32bit only Windows PCs as 64bit ones.

I agree that XP is yesterday's tech, but it won't look that way to people currently using it which remains the biggest problem of pretty much ANY electronics manufacturer right now... be it HD-TV, games console, multi-core CPU or fully-featured stable and pretty secure OS - we've all already got one, and there's nothing good enough to convince the majority they need anything better... quite the reverse... Linux and reduced spec hardware are on the rise not top-end PCs.

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft to Windows XP diehards: Just under 3 more years
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:08 pm 
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Well I've ported to win7 myself fully bar a netbook with Xp.. never touched Vista (well not on my own PCs) so dodged that bullet! Still not sure I like how 'tablety" windows 8 is looking..that might be nice for my phone but my PC?? At some stage I might return to Ubuntu...

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft to Windows XP diehards: Just under 3 more years
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:42 pm 
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ManMoreFyahYoo wrote:
Well I've ported to win7 myself fully bar a netbook with Xp.. never touched Vista (well not on my own PCs) so dodged that bullet! Still not sure I like how 'tablety" windows 8 is looking..that might be nice for my phone but my PC?? At some stage I might return to Ubuntu...



That's a bullet we both dodged mate. :cool:

And I'm having an affair at the moment... :lol: I've got one XP Pro 32bit and a new Win7 Ultimate 64bit, and it's not bad tbh... not as quick as XP and not as easy to use... too many crap tweaks compared to XP but that said those were to de-Vista it so they were probably needed to save it. Kind of wasting the i5 2500K and the 8Gb Corsair RAM running the fecking GUI though... I don't even like transparent title bars! :rolleyes: And I'd like my GPU leaving the hell alone, it's for my games not speeding up their sluggish code. :hmm:

Ubuntu I've never tried, but that day is coming I think.

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