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 Post subject: England ~ Big Sam's Big Plan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:07 pm 
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For a man who values his accumulation of data so highly, there is one statistic that will stalk Sam Allardyce for as long as he holds on to his precious new role. As he contemplates its significance, it will give him an insight into the challenges that confronted his predecessor. He has his dream job at long last but this number is the stuff of nightmares for any England manager.

There can be no excuses for the way that Roy Hodgson bungled England’s chances of succeeding at Euro 2016 in isolation. In a wider context, though, Hodgson’s underachievement cannot change the fact that he was selecting a squad from a dwindling pool of homegrown talent, with the number of English players starting in the Premier League dropping to 31% last season. That is an average of just over 68 players a week and at this point Allardyce could be forgiven for wondering if this job is all it is cracked up to be.

Allardyce’s England: no grandstanding, no posturing but a hint of mischief | Jacob Steinberg
Though the 61-year-old discussed the topic openly, he struck a concerned tone at first. “The only way we get a bigger pool is by us in the long term producing more players in our own country,” he said. “Unfortunately, because the Premier League is a global commodity, it can be filled up with international players at all levels.

“Even at academy levels, there are foreign players being taken in. That’s growing quite quickly, which is quite disturbing. But they are having to look after themselves and their brand. It’s a worldwide brand. So it’s a huge task for us and the FA to break that cycle. We have to keep trying.”

Allardyce did not have a reputation as a great champion of young players at club level. Mark Noble and James Tomkins were established academy products who matured under his guidance at West Ham United and he bolstered the English contingent there by adding Andy Carroll, Aaron Cresswell, Stewart Downing, Matt Jarvis and Kevin Nolan to the mix in the years after promotion.

There were opportunities for Duncan Watmore and Jordan Pickford at Sunderland, while Allardyce’s time at Blackburn Rovers was notable for the trust he placed in Phil Jones by giving the defender his first league start in a game against Chelsea, whose attack featured Nicolas Anelka and Didier Drogba.

Yet he did not have an English core at Blackburn Rovers. “Bolton at one stage, we hardly had any,” Allardyce said, before explaining that English players were often too expensive for the smaller clubs. “They were cheaper from abroad. What does your budget say? The budget is the underlying factor. You’d like that player – but he’s 25% more than that one here.

“I bet most of the England players in the Euros were loaned out early in their careers, or they started in lower league. We have lost the emergency loan system which we have to fall into line with Uefa sadly. All those youngsters aren’t having any first-team experience. We are blocking the way for our youngsters to develop. We’re looking at a player coming into the Premier League at 22, 23 now. If you didn’t make it at 18 when I was coming through you were gone.”

It means that he might have to compromise and pick players who are struggling for games. “I talked to Roy many times about the fact you are often picking with some who are at the top of their club, but some who are fringe players as well, rather than regular players,” Allardyce said. “That goes without saying now when you’ve only got 31%. Now I’m sat in this position it’s disappointing. I’ve just come from the Premier League and the pressures that come with that.”

At the same time, Allardyce believes his youthful squad is bursting with potential and hopes to discover more hidden talents such as Marcus Rashford. “It’s fair to say that if [Anthony] Martial hadn’t got injured in the warm up [against Midtjylland] we wouldn’t have seen the young man playing for Manchester United quite as much and ultimately playing a couple of substitute appearances for England,” Allardyce said. “What an exciting prospect he looks. How many more of those players are there that can maybe emerge? I get excited by that.

“But I also get excited by it being the injury crisis at United forcing those lads to be thrown in at the deep end and obviously he came out on top. It’s not easy to put those youngsters in as a Premier League manager because of the cost of failure but when you get someone emerging like that it’s encouraging to think that talent is lurking.”

But Rashford’s opportunities under José Mourinho might be limited after Zlatan Ibrahimovic’s arrival. “It will just be down to him,” Allardyce said. “He’s a talent. If he sees that talent emerge like it did last year he picks himself. Where he [the manager] might play him might not be as much as last year. He’s brought some terrific players, particularly Ibrahimovic, a big frontman. His job is to win the title with United now.”

Therein lies the problem.


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 Post subject: Re: England ~ Big Sam's Big Plan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:47 pm 
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James Milner is considering international retirement to clear the way for England’s young talent.

Milner was part of the England squad at Euro 2016, his fourth major tournament, but the Liverpool midfielder barely featured as the national side slipped out in the second round under Roy Hodgson.

Leicester City’s Danny Drinkwater was controversially overlooked while the likes of James Ward-Prowse and Ruben Loftus-Cheek have impressed with the England Under‑21s, and Milner is now thinking about calling time on his international career after 61 caps.

“Over the last couple of years with the England team I have not really played too much,” Milner, 30, said. “With the good young players we have coming through, it is pointless me taking up a spot just because I am reliable.

“I am fortunate to have been involved in international football since I was 17 or 18 without stopping. I was with the under-21s and went through so I have played more than 100 games.

“I’ve been to four tournaments but if a younger guy had come in and maybe done the same job at Euro 2016, he would have taken a lot more from it than I [did].”

Sam Allardyce, the new national coach, managed Milner at Newcastle United in the 2007-08 season. Milner said: “I am happy it is Sam as I know I can have a good conversation with him and it will be honest. That is all I ever wanted.”

Milner played at left-back in Liverpool’s 2-0 friendly win against AC Milan on Saturday night, adding to his reputation for versatility. He joked: “I’m just looking for goalkeeper now to complete the set. It’s like hunting Pokemon, it’s the only one I need!”


Was surprised we didn't use him at the euros he played in nearly all the qualifiers

Get the impression he can't be ar*ed with being a squad player would rather have time off during international weeks


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 Post subject: Re: England ~ Big Sam's Big Plan
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:42 pm 
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James Milner has confirmed his retirement from international football following discussions with the England manager, Sam Allardyce. The Liverpool midfielder made his senior debut in 2009 before going on to make 61 appearances for his country.

Milner, 30, was part of the England squad at Euro 2016, his fourth major tournament, but he barely featured as the national side slipped out in the second round under Roy Hodgson. Milner had alluded to stepping away from international duty as recently as last week.

“James has had the chance to reflect on his international career in recent months and consider his next steps, particularly with a young family at home and having allowed himself little free time away from the professional game in the past 15 years,” Allardyce said.

“After we had a lengthy conversation with him earlier this week, he has decided to take a step back from international duty; a decision I fully respect. James can be proud of his seven-year career as a senior England player.”

However, Milner, formerly of Newcastle United and Leeds United, has expressed a willingness to answer Allardyce’s call in exceptional circumstances.

Allardyce said: “In what is the mark of a true professional, James is a proud Englishman and has acknowledged that he would be prepared to step up again if I ever needed him to play a specific role of importance within my team.”


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 Post subject: Re: England ~ Big Sam's Big Plan
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:59 pm 
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England manager Sam Allardyce says he would be open to speaking to John Terry about a return to the national team but admits there could be 'political' issues.

The Chelsea captain retired from international football in September 2012, four days before he was suspended for four matches by the Football Association for misconduct following an incident during a match against Queens Park Rangers.

He won the last of his 78 caps in England's 5-0 win over Moldova, and was not considered for the national side during Roy Hodgson's time in charge.

However, asked if Terry could be considered for England selection again, Allardyce said: "I don't know what the political side of that might mean, if there is a political side. I'll have to have that conversation if I feel that John Terry may be a possibility.

"I think it depends on what John said. Maybe if I get the opportunity, I might have to give him a ring. But until I come to that selection or that process, we'll wait and see."

Allardyce will name his first England squad on Sunday as he prepares for the opening match of their 2018 World Cup qualification campaign in Slovakia on September 4.

Allardyce will announce his skipper this week and has also confirmed Joe Hart will remain part of the squad for his first games in charge.

But the 61-year-old remained coy on whether he will select Hart's Manchester City team-mate John Stones, stressing he was focused on immediate results rather than playing potential.

"See there's that word then, we don't want potential do we. I want the thing, and right now," he said when asked about Stones.

"Potential is something that's going to be great in the future. I want it right now and I think he's got a great chance of becoming right now working with Manchester City.

"With all due respect to Everton, working with Manchester City and the level he has to get to because you don't realise he (Guardiola) does focus quite a lot on defending - not just wining the ball back.

"(Gerard) Pique was a little similar at Man United until he went to Barcelona then he became a good defender as well as a great attribute for Barcelona in possession. So he had both. That's why he stayed there for so long."


F*ck the politics involved in bringing back Terry lets look at his form over the last 12 months it's been poor people seem determined to ignore that Smalling, Cahill, Stones & Shawcross would be my four on form over the last 12 months as CB's and even then only Smalling can probably say he was at his very best last season it's real slim pickings.

Terry is 35 he could retire at the end of the season there's absolutely no reason to bring him back if we're not picked people for their potential then lets not pick them for their past either lets live in the now and right now I don't think Terry is good enough to play for England over the next 2 year cycle.

Rooney imo is hanging on by the skin of his teeth probably deserves to be in the squad as does Hart but their positions are starters must be under threat.


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 Post subject: Re: England ~ Big Sam's Big Plan
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:22 pm 
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Sam Allardyce has revealed he had hoped to call up Steven N’Zonzi for England but his attempts have been thwarted because the former Blackburn and Stoke midfielder is not eligible.

Allardyce, who signed N’Zonzi – now at Sevilla – for Blackburn in 2009, was approached by the player’s father, who wanted to know if his six years in England opened the door for a call-up. The Football Association contacted Fifa, but was told N’Zonzi’s one cap for France Under-21s ruled him out.

“We did have a call, and it would have been of interest for me,” Allardyce said. “We did explore it, but it was impossible, and it’s dead now.”

Allardyce, who announces his first England squad on Sunday, has also said that he is prepared to fall out with Manchester United’s José Mourinho or any other manager when it comes to getting the players he wants for his England team.

Allardyce – who took over from Roy Hodgson this summer – is expected to include the United left-back Luke Shaw, who is back in form after missing almost all of last season through injury, in his first squad. Mourinho might be keen to let the 21-year-old rest, but Allardyce is not concerned.

“I will speak to José,” he said. “We’ve got on well together, but when you’re having a conversation with an international manager, we all know the difficulties of the past. So, I’m not saying we won’t have a fall-out now and again because we’re both passionate about what we do. There may be a time when it gets a bit sticky, when he doesn’t agree with me or I don’t agree with him. Hopefully that’s miles away.”

While Shaw is line for a recall, there are several other question marks over Allardyce’s squad. Phil Jagielka, Danny Drinkwater and Andros Townsend could all return, while Jermain Defoe – who worked with Allardyce at Sunderland last season – is under consideration. Joe Hart will be included but, after being dropped by Manchester City, is not guaranteed to play. “Obviously Joe’s not playing, Jack Butland is injured and there’s only Fraser (Forster) who’s playing at Southampton on a regular basis,” Allardyce said of his goalkeepers. “That’s a bit of a dilemma.”

James Milner, who scored Liverpool’s opening goal in Saturday’s 1-1 draw at Tottenham, called time on his England career after Euro 2016, but Allardyce revealed the Liverpool man remains available to him in an emergency.

“James has said he will always be there for us if we want him,” he said. “He can’t continue to keep traipsing all over Europe without playing. But he will always be there to step in if we need him, if there is a crisis with injuries or suspensions. That is great from my point of view.”

Allardyce will be naming his first squad before next weekend’s opening World Cup qualifier against Slovakia, England’s only match of this international break after a planned friendly with Croatia was cancelled. “Let’s face it, the last thing the players needed was a friendly,” Allardyce said. “The last thing I needed in my first get-together was to have to think about a friendly at Wembley and then only have two days after that to prepare for Slovakia away.”


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 Post subject: Re: England ~ Big Sam's Big Plan
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:59 pm 
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Sam Allardyce has named his first-ever England squad, with Michail Antonio the only player without a cap.

Allardyce was appointed Roy Hodgson’s replacement as manager this summer, and has named his first squad for the upcoming World Cup 2018 qualifier against Slovakia.

Antonio is the only potential debutant in the 23 – hopefully not as a right-back – as Mark Noble has been once again overlooked for a place.

The West Ham captain was expected to be among those named by his former manager at Upton Park, Allardyce, but instead Wayne Rooney has been listed as a midfielder in the squad.

Ross Barkley drops out of the squad, one of five changes to the 23-man group which went to Euro 2016.


Bet Defoe is currently typing a very long very angry text to Big Sam

Hart, Forster, Heaton

Cahill, Clyne, Jagielka, Rose, Shaw, Smalling, Stones, Walker

Alli, Antonio, Dier, Drinkwater, Henderson, lallana, Rooney, Sterling, Walcott

Kane, Sturridge, Vardy


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 Post subject: Re: England ~ Big Sam's Big Plan
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:40 pm 
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Sam Allardyce admits that omitting Ross Barkley from his first England squad was the toughest decision he had to make.

Allardyce, who also confirmed that he would name his captain on Tuesday, left Barkley out of his 23-man squad for Sunday’s 2018 World Cup qualifier in Slovakia despite the Everton midfielder having enjoyed a promising start to the season.

The 22-year-old, who was an unused member of England’s Euro 2016 squad, has scored twice in his first four games but that was not enough to prevent him being left out by Allardyce.

The former Sunderland manager said: “We’ve had to make some very, very difficult decisions. None more so than Ross Barkley. It’s disappointing for him. The door will always be open for Ross but at this moment I think the squad I’ve named is right.”

On what things he and his coaching staff had looked at when selecting players, Allardyce said: “We’ve looked at all avenues, what sort of pre-season they’ve had, what happened last season, this season, look at balance of the squad …”

While Barkley, who was watched by Allardyce in Saturday’s win over Stoke and the assistant Sammy Lee in the opening-day draw with Tottenham, was left out, along with Jack Wilshere, there was better news for the recalled quartet Luke Shaw, Phil Jagielka, Danny Drinkwater and Theo Walcott.

There was a surprise first call-up for West Ham winger Michail Antonio, with the squad showing five changes from the one that went to Euro 2016.

In explaining his decision to select the 26-year-old Antonio, Allardyce said: “The journey. The quality of the player that has shown through in every league he has played. The impact he had at the end of last season and the start of this, his attacking flair, his quality for final-third delivery, and his goal record from a wide position.

“I think that that journey is something that deserves to be in this squad and me to have a look at as a potential player going forward. It shows if you’ve got guts and determination and desire, how much it means [to you] … then he goes forward and creates a career for him which finally ends in the Premier League and finally with us in this squad.”

Allardyce has also left out Marcus Rashford and believes the Manchester United striker needs to secure a first-team place at Old Trafford before he is regular at senior international level.

The 18-year-old, who was included in Roy Hodgson’s squad for the European Championship, came off the bench to score his first Premier League goal of the season at Hull on Saturday.

“I think that having international experience in the Under-21s will be invaluable for us later down the line,” Allardyce said. “And, if he’s breaking into Manchester United’s team, he will be in my squad, whenever that’s announced.

“But because of his inclusion only as a substitute – as good as it was against Hull City – I think that the value of having probably a full game with Gareth [Southgate, Under-21 manager] will be invaluable to him and, later on, for us. A bit like Harry Kane and people like that in the past.

“He made a massive impact last season, yes, but he’s only a young man, let’s not heap too much pressure on him just yet. Let him go and have a feel playing for the Under-21s; hopefully he’s a star for them, scores goals for them and gives me that decision next time around on the next squad I pick.”

England created few chances in a frustrating 0-0 draw against Slovakia in the final group game at Euro 2016 but Allardyce expects a different proposition in the forthcoming game.

He feels their opponents will have to make more of an attempt to win the game and cannot be content with a draw.

“We’ve examined that game, we’ve watched that match but we’ve really focused on the games they’ve played at home and I think that their tactics will be different when we play them in Slovakia,” he said. “They’re a team that has to come out and attack us to try and win the game, they’re playing at home whereas in the Euros we all knew that one point was enough for them and they made a very sound, solid defensive unit that was very difficult to break down in the end because they weren’t interested in playing any type of attacking football.

“I think it will be difficult in Slovakia and we have to plan for them playing on their own patch and us trying to break them down.”


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 Post subject: Re: England ~ Big Sam's Big Plan
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:17 pm 
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Henry Winter called it ‘ridiculous’ and ‘inexplicable’ and he was not the only journalist who was spluttering at the news that Sam Allardyce had opted against calling up Ross Barkley to his first England squad. ‘Why would anyone who had a talent like Barkley available not want to work with him?’ asked the Daily Telegraph’s Matt Law while the Daily Mail’s Sami Mokbel bemoaned the loss of England’s two ‘most technically gifted talents’ in Barkley and Jack Wilshere.

Apparently the decision was baffling. Barely anybody noticed that Phil Jagielka had been bizarrely sneaked back into the squad when Ryan Shawcross and Scott Dann make excellent and much younger cases for inclusion, and almost nobody questioned why anybody should use the words “the journey” to explain the call-up of Michail Antonio as if it were an X Factor audition. Yet there was wailing and gnashing of the teeth at the exclusion of a player who had been very lucky to even make England’s Euro 2016 squad just a few months ago.

Seriously, what did anybody expect? Allardyce was lauded as the most modern of managers, who believes in the extensive use of statistics and is immune to the power of reputation, and then you are shocked when he picks a player based on statistics rather than reputation. Journalists have long adopted Barkley as a cause celebre, comparing him to Paul Gascoigne, Wayne Rooney and every other heavy-set working-class hero, but Allardyce – a manager obsessed with the effectiveness rather than style – will look at the numbers and see waste rather than precocious talent.

He watched Barkley at Goodison Park on Saturday and saw a player dispossessed five times; that took him to 14 for the season and that is a statistic ‘beaten’ by no other player in the Premier League. He may also have clocked a lower pass completion rate than any other Everton player against Stoke and absolutely no successful tackles or interceptions. He might then have checked the stats for the season and seen that Barkley has attempted seven tackles and been dribbled past five times.

While journalists marvel at Barkley’s technical ability, Allardyce was checking whether former Blackburn and Stoke midfielder Steven Nzonzi could be called up by England. Nzonzi is yet to be dispossessed in two La Liga games this season and has not yet missed a tackle this season. He’s also French – which proved a slight problem – but exactly the kind of player that Allardyce likes. Barkley is patently not and, if pushed, he would have no problems showing his workings-out.

The clamour for Allardyce to be appointed was incredibly loud from a mainstream media who wanted somebody English, and they were keen to tell us that he was no prehistoric neanderthal but a man with a laptop and a clear plan. His laptop tells him that Barkley is a risk and his plan is to cut down on risk and play percentage football. The only thing that’s ‘ridiculous’ is the reaction to him following that plan.

Sarah Winterburn


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 Post subject: Re: England ~ Big Sam's Big Plan
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:10 am 
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Rooney keeps captaincy.

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 Post subject: Re: England ~ Big Sam's Big Plan
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:23 am 
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I give up with this England nonsense

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 Post subject: Re: England ~ Big Sam's Big Plan
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:25 am 
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Can't really argue with Rooney keeping the armband when you consider no one in that squad has done enough to take it off him I just hope that Allardyce treats him like everyone else if you're not playing well you're coming off. There were rumours of Henderson getting the captaincy FFS.

Allardyce at least seems to have confirmed that Rooney will go back to his number 10 position now I'm guessing he'll be playing off Harry Kane and no doubt Rooney will score a bucket load of goals in qualifiers but will be interesting to see what he does with Delle Alli now. He's basically said the reason he didn't pick Barkley is he's already got 2 number 10's in his squad in Rooney & Alli so he couldn't pick Barkley as well.


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 Post subject: Re: England ~ Big Sam's Big Plan
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:18 pm 
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JSP wrote:
Can't really argue with Rooney keeping the armband when you consider no one in that squad has done enough to take it off him I just hope that Allardyce treats him like everyone else if you're not playing well you're coming off. There were rumours of Henderson getting the captaincy FFS.

Allardyce at least seems to have confirmed that Rooney will go back to his number 10 position now I'm guessing he'll be playing off Harry Kane and no doubt Rooney will score a bucket load of goals in qualifiers but will be interesting to see what he does with Delle Alli now. He's basically said the reason he didn't pick Barkley is he's already got 2 number 10's in his squad in Rooney & Alli so he couldn't pick Barkley as well.

Can argue he shouldn't keep the armband when he shouldn't be in the starting 11 anymore and this definitely will mean he's guaranteed to start.

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 Post subject: Re: England ~ Big Sam's Big Plan
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:46 am 
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Who's a nailed on starter in this team now though?

They were talking about it on the radio the other day Dier as the holding mid was the only one they agreed on but what's to say last season wasn't a fluke and surely Drinkwater/Henderson will be putting him under pressure for his place. You can probably make a case for Luke Shaw as well at left back but Danny Rose has done well enough in his absence to keep his place imo.

Personally I think we should be moving on from Rooney but the problem is in England we're obsessed with the captain and the captain has to play Rooney could be captain because he's the natural leader in the squad and he's apparently very good at getting all the players from other clubs to socialise together which is good for team spirit but that shouldn't mean he has to start. Rooney imo is still good enough to be in the squad and probably just good enough to keep his starting spot but that might only last a few more games if he doesn't perform there are now guys like Alli or Barkley who could take his place.

It seems pretty obvious to me that we are lining up for a 4-2-3-1 system which is what most sides play and last season the combination of Alli & Kane up until May was devestating one of the best partnerships in Europe but we decided not to use in in the national team.

This is the thing with England be it starting XI or the squad the arguments between who should play/get selected are marginal there's not a huge difference in quality between the guy who does start and the guy who's the reserve at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: England ~ Big Sam's Big Plan
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:47 pm 
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England captain Wayne Rooney says the debate over his role in the team has been an "overreaction".

Rooney, winning his 116th cap, mainly played a deep midfield role in Sunday's 1-0 win over Slovakia, which was new boss Sam Allardyce's first in charge.

Allardyce said post-match it was "not for me to say" what Rooney's position was and he "played wherever he wanted".

But Rooney, 30, said: "I played in that role and helped us win the game - too much is getting made about it."

Speaking to Sky Sports, the Manchester United captain added: "I've done it my whole career and suddenly it's big news. It's not a big thing and I think there's a big overreaction to it."

Rooney's position on the field for club and country has been has been widely discussed this season and England's record goalscorer did not touch the ball once in the Slovakia penalty area during the World Cup qualifier in Trnava.

"With Rooney in a deep-lying midfield role for most of the match, Harry Kane was isolated up front and it killed his game," BBC Sport pundit Chris Sutton said in a column for the Daily Mail.

"Rooney can't pick and choose where he plays - it's not a testimonial. He is a lovely passer and technician but if he's not playing to Kane's strengths then the whole team suffer."

Rooney has said he will retire after the 2018 World Cup finals in Russia, by which stage he is likely to have overtaken Peter Shilton as England's most-capped player.

But the former goalkeeper, who was capped 125 times by his country, told BBC Radio 5 live: "I thought he should have retired after the Euros, I don't think he's a striker any more - and it's not because he can break my record.

"He's not a midfield player for me, he never was and he never will be. He sprays a few passes around but he's not been very effective."

United manager Jose Mourinho has played Rooney behind new striker Zlatan Ibrahimovic this season, while Roy Hodgson, Allardyce's predecessor as England boss, selected him as a midfielder at Euro 2016.

Allardyce said he "can't stop" Rooney from dropping into midfield and the player has a "lot more experience at international football" than he does.

Rooney added: "I'm playing on the pitch for England. I'm captain of the team and I feel I can do a very good job in the role. I am happy where I'm playing."


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 Post subject: Re: England ~ Big Sam's Big Plan
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:41 am 
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what an idiot, shortest England manager career in history?

Must say I do hope he goes, should never have got the job.


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 Post subject: Re: England ~ Big Sam's Big Plan
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:13 am 
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Quote:
The Football Association is investigating allegations England manager Sam Allardyce used his role to negotiate a £400,000 deal and offer advice on how to "get around" rules on player transfers.

The Telegraph claims to have footage from August of Allardyce meeting men claiming to represent a Far East firm where he appears to say third-party ownership rules can be avoided.

The 61-year-old has yet to respond to the allegations, while the FA has asked to see the paper's filmed recordings.

It will meet on Tuesday morning when new chairman Greg Clarke and chief executive Martin Glenn must decide whether the issue is one of poor judgement or something more serious.

"I want all the facts, to hear everything from everyone and make a judgement about what to do," Clarke told the Daily Mail.

"Natural justice requires us to get to the bottom of the issues before we make any decision. It is not appropriate to pre-judge the issue. With things like this you have to take a deep breath."

Third-party ownership of players was banned by the FA in 2008.

During the meeting with the businessmen, who were undercover reporters, it is alleged Allardyce - who was only named England boss in July - said it was "not a problem" to bypass the rules and he knew of agents who were "doing it all the time".

It is alleged by the paper that a deal was struck with the England boss worth £400,000 for him to represent the company to Far East investors, and to be a keynote speaker at events.

Allardyce tells the undercover reporters any arrangement would have to be cleared by the FA.

Third-party ownership, in which investment companies take a stake in the economic rights of players, was described as a form of "slavery" by Michel Platini, the former president of European football's governing body Uefa.

World football's governing body Fifa banned the practice in May last year.

Allardyce attended the meeting with the fictitious businessmen in London along with his agent, Mark Curtis, and his financial adviser, Shane Moloney.

During the meeting he said Enner Valencia had been under a third-party ownership agreement when he signed the Ecuador forward for £12m for West Ham from Mexican club Pachuca in 2014, but that the third-party ownership ended on the transfer and the Hammers acquired the player "whole".

Curtis and Moloney have not yet responded to the allegations.

In the Telegraph recording, Allardyce also refers to predecessor Roy Hodgson, as "Woy", referencing his speech impediment.

He also criticises former assistant coach Gary Neville - saying Hodgson should have told him to "sit down and shut up" - as well as the FA's decision to "stupidly" rebuild Wembley Stadium at a cost of £870m.

Former Blackpool, Notts County, Bolton, Newcastle, Blackburn, West Ham and Sunderland manager Allardyce succeeded Hodgson, who quit after England were knocked out of Euro 2016 in the last 16 by Iceland.

He has had just one game in charge of the national side - a 1-0 win over Slovakia in a World Cup qualifier earlier this month.

He is due to name his squad on Sunday for the forthcoming World Cup qualifiers, including his first Wembley match in charge against Malta on 8 October (17:00 BST kick-off).

The FA banned third-party ownership following the discovery that the economic rights of Argentina players Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano were owned by two offshore companies when they joined West Ham in 2006

Ian Dennis, BBC Radio 5 live senior football reporter

"One aspect to the story - and it is a very big story - and you don't get it from the headline, is that Allardyce repeatedly said he would have to get it cleared by the FA. His exact quote was 'I'll have to run it by the powers that be'. That's in terms of what he was allegedly being offered. However, it's still very serious for the FA. It's uncomfortable and it's embarrassing for Sam Allardyce, just two months into a two-year deal as manager. I think his future at the moment faces real scrutiny.

"Is it a question of poor judgement or something more serious? The next 24 hours are going to be very, very interesting.

"Some may say his job is under threat - that's what the FA will have to decide."


In his defence he does say he'll need to get the FA to clear it before he offers anything and as with all these stings you never know how serious it all is he could just think he's talking freely. Sounds to me like he was lured in with a big money offer to be a glorified director and in the introduction chats he gave some honest opinions about things in the game.

The stuff about 3rd party ownership is hardly surprising and West Ham break no rules on signing Valencia as they bought him out of his 3rd party deal just like City did with Mangala etc and I'm sure in his years as a manager he's come across loads of agents who are bending the rules. Think about that commission that Pogba's agent got could you not argue that this was almost like a 3rd party deal.

Rebuilding Wembley was a stupid idea pretty much everyone agrees that money would've been better spent building a stadium somewhere in the middle of the country at half the cost and using the rest of the money to fund some grass roots stuff.

I'm not sure he's actually said that much wrong it's just stupid really if you're the England manager should you really be offering yourself up as a consultant for additional money when you know everything you do is under scrutiny.


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 Post subject: Re: England ~ Big Sam's Big Plan
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:49 am 
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I think he's a goner, even if what he's said isn't that bad. Not sure they can stick with him. What a way to ruin your dream job. I don't like him though so :shrug:

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 Post subject: Re: England ~ Big Sam's Big Plan
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:12 pm 
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I think the concern will is what came out last night the tip of the iceberg? It's unlikely that the newspaper will have put everything out straight away as it's a sting operation so chances are there's still more to come over the next few days why sell a story in 1 day when you can build it over 3 or 4?

I'm not a huge fan but I think he was the right man for the job we have to give English managers a chance and his record was the stand out one and given time you'd hope he'd build a bit of a club atmosphere within the squad and help remove the shackles of the England shirt. The young managers coming up like Monk, Dyche & Howe still don't have the experience yet to deal with the pressure of the England job.

The thing for the FA will be how quickly can this blow over? If they sack him do they have to pay him off as he hasn't necessary done anything wrong he's quite clear that he needs to talk to his employers before he commits to anything all he's done is take a meeting.

Steve Bruce will be waiting by his phone though as he's the obvious replacement as he's out of work and was previously shortlisted so can be appointed quickly and he's a similar sort of manager/character to Allardyce.

I think the FA will do everything he can to try and keep Allardyce


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 Post subject: Re: England ~ Big Sam's Big Plan
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:10 pm 
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Quote:
England manager Sam Allardyce is close to being sacked by the FA, according to The Times.

FA chairman Greg Clarke and chief executive Martin Glenn held an emergency meeting at Wembley this morning, where Allardyce will later meet with his employers.

The duo are understood to be “extremely disturbed” by the allegations Allardyce offered advice on how to circumvent FA third-party ownership laws and tried to negotiate a £400,000 deal to address investors in a Far East firm.

Allardyce will be afforded the opportunity to explain his side of the story but the report suggests Clarke and Glenn have “major misgivings over whether he can continue in the job”.

The report adds:

“If Clarke and Glenn decide that Allardyce’s position is untenable they will make a recommendation to an emergency meeting of the FA board that his contract should be terminated. The judgement may come down to whether allowing him to remain as England manager will store up even bigger problems for the FA in the longer term, especially if the governing body has to deal with other disciplinary issues arising from The Telegraph investigation into football agents and managers.”

Allardyce was also filmed criticising Roy Hodgson, Gary Neville and the FA’s decision to rebuild Wembley.


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 Post subject: Re: England ~ Big Sam's Big Plan
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:58 pm 
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Kaveh Solhekol ‏@SkyKaveh 4m4 minutes ago
Given list with names of 7 managers who fear they've been stung by Telegraph just like Sam Allardyce. 5 English, 2 ex international managers

:doh:

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