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 Post subject: NOTW is no more
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:43 pm 
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Iain Watson

Political correspondent, BBC News

FROM THE BBC WEBSITE


David Cameron has promised to set up a public inquiry into phone hacking at the News of the World.

The UK prime minister said claims that the voicemail of murdered schoolgirl Milly Dowler had been hacked, with some messages deleted, were "disgusting".

But he told MPs an inquiry could not take place until police investigations were concluded.

Labour leader Ed Miliband said Mr Cameron was "out of touch" and an inquiry should be set up sooner.

The prime minister's spokeswoman told the BBC there could even be two inquiries into phone hacking - one into the police handling of the original investigation in the middle of the last decade, and one into the actions of the media.

Or, alternatively, there could be one all-encompassing inquiry, led by a judge.

'Revolted'

News International, the publisher of the News of the World, said it welcomed the idea of a wide-ranging public inquiry into standards in the media.

It is claimed that 13-year-old Milly Dowler's voicemail was hacked by an investigator working for the News of the World after she disappeared near her home in Surrey in 2002 .

This follows allegations that dozens of politicians and celebrities, including actor Hugh Grant and former Deputy Prime Minister Lord Prescott, were also targeted.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ed Miliband went to the Commons to demand an inquiry that he felt the prime minister would be reluctant to concede.

But David Cameron took the wind from his sails by raising the possibility not only of one inquiry but two: one into into media standards, another on how the police handled the initial hacking revelations.

It is not clear when the PM decided to back an inquiry but those close to him say he saw the current allegations - in particular the hacking of murdered schoolgirl Milly Dowler's phone - as being "particularly serious".

But Mr Cameron still faces two difficulties raised by Mr Miliband.

First, he has been reluctant to change the timescale for the potential takeover of BSkyB by the Murdoch empire because "this is a quasi-judicial process". Expect pressure to be applied to get the whole deal referred back to the Competition Commission.

Second, Andy Coulson - David Cameron's former communications chief - has returned to prominence over allegations of police payments.

Despite today's announcement, on the explosive issue of hacking the touchpaper remains alight.
Amid noisy scenes at Prime Minister's Questions in the House of Commons, Mr Cameron said: "We do need to have an inquiry, possibly inquiries, into what has happened.

"We are no longer talking here about politicians and celebrities. We are talking about murder victims, potentially terrorist victims, having their phones hacked into.

"It is absolutely disgusting, what has taken place, and I think everyone in this House and indeed this country will be revolted by what they have heard and what they have seen on their television screens."

But he added that an inquiry could not happen yet, saying: "There's a major police investigation under way. It's one of the biggest police investigations currently under way in our country."

Mr Cameron said he would discuss the issue with Mr Miliband and other party leaders, along with Attorney General Dominic Grieve and the head of the civil service, Cabinet Secretary Sir Gus O'Donnell.

Mr Miliband told MPs he was "encouraged" by Mr Cameron's comments but added that it was "possible for the prime minister to start the process now".

He recommended immediately appointing a senior figure, such as a judge, to begin work on looking at "culture and practices" in the newspaper industry.

Mr Miliband also urged Mr Cameron to back his call for Rebekah Brooks, editor of the News of the World at the time of the alleged hacking of Milly's phone, to resign from her current job as chief executive of News International.

The Labour leader also questioned Mr Cameron's decision to hire another former News of the World editor, Andy Coulson, as his director of communications, after he resigned from the paper in 2007 over the phone hacking scandal.

'Very dirty smell'

He said: "He's got to accept that he made a catastrophic error of judgement by bringing Andy Coulson into the heart of the Downing Street machine."

The prime minister said that it was important to "let the police do their work" before making claims about Mrs Brooks and other individuals.

“He's got to accept that he made a catastrophic error of judgement by bringing Andy Coulson into the heart of the Downing Street machine”
Ed Miliband

News International 'know who was involved'

Mr Coulson resigned from his government post in January this year, saying the ongoing claims over phone hacking during his time as News of the World editor were making it impossible to do his job.

Meanwhile, News International has passed e-mails to the police which appear to show that payments to police officers were authorised by Mr Coulson during his tenure as News of the World editor, a job in which he succeeded Mrs Brooks.

BBC business editor Robert Peston said this shows the investigation into alleged illicit techniques used by the paper to obtain stories went much wider than an examination of phone hacking.

Mr Coulson resigned when the tabloid's royal editor, Clive Goodman, was jailed for conspiracy to access phone messages. Private investigator Glenn Mulcaire was imprisoned for six months on the same charge.

But a Press Complaints Commission investigation in May 2007 found no evidence that Mr Coulson or anyone else at the paper had been aware of Goodman's activities and, that same month, he became Mr Cameron's director of communications.

MPs are holding further discussions on phone hacking, after Commons Speaker John Bercow granted an emergency debate.

Labour's Chris Bryant questioned the role of the Metropolitan Police during the earlier investigation into hacking, and the information officers had given ministers and others.

He said: "I think a lot of lies have been told to a lot of people. When police officers tell lies or, at best, half-truths to politicians... that's a major constitutional issue for us to face."

Mr Bryant added: "What hangs around is a very dirty smell."

As revelations involving the News of the World continue to emerge, families of victims of the 7 July bombings in 2005 have complained that they may have had their phones hacked.

Police investigating hacking claims against the paper have contacted the parents of murdered schoolgirls Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman.

Mrs Brooks has said the claims of hacking Milly's phone are "almost too horrific to believe" and pledged the "strongest possible action" if they prove to be true. She has also said it is "inconceivable" that she knew about them during her time as News of the World editor.

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 Post subject: Re: Phone TAPPING
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:37 pm 
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So, phone tapping was more widespread than thought, more people were tapped than it seemed and not just celebs and politicians and the NOTW wasnt the only one at it.

And whilst the PM is saying he will have the public enquiry that many are calling for hes trying to delay it and limit it.

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 Post subject: Re: Phone TAPPING
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:59 pm 
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Waiting until the legal case finishes surely makes sense to make sure that cases don't overlap.

I would be surprised if its just the NOTW I imagine they're at it.

What's important is that all those who knew it was happening are bought to justice but at the moment a handful seem to set to take the fall for it.

Another thought is why did it take something this sick to force a public enquiry? Before when it was celebs or politicians should it not have been treated the same?


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 Post subject: Re: Phone TAPPING
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:53 pm 
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Because its a good deal more widespread than anyone is prepared to admit and our current governing party have been big beneficiaries of it in the past. The UK establishment has a lot to loose from a proper public enquiry. Its my guess any public enquiry will be a whitewash or a smoke screen,

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 Post subject: Re: Phone TAPPING
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:07 pm 
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Surely any party relies massively on media backing to gain public support as like it or not they control what a large part of what the voting public know.

I agree the public enquiry will not go far enough but I doubt any party would risk losing control of the media.


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 Post subject: Re: Phone TAPPING
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:49 pm 
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Mr Spock wrote:
So, phone tapping was more widespread than thought, more people were tapped than it seemed and not just celebs and politicians and the NOTW wasnt the only one at it.

And whilst the PM is saying he will have the public enquiry that many are calling for hes trying to delay it and limit it.


I've heard a story (in an American context, that I assume is much like in the UK) where some policeman/spook/official security guy was told to make contact with Spy HQ to arrange the tapping of a certain telephone, that went similarly:

Could you arrange it for x-y dates for such a number please?

Yeah no worry. It's done.

Don't you need the dates?

No, we already tap it all so we can just give you it out of that... whatever the dates you need are.



If you're shocked or surprised it's no wonder - so was he! And I've seen nothing to suggest the UK is any different. And this is in addition to their 60-mile radius of their listening-to-you-live service operated around the president and VIPs and and other keyword-tripped recording capabilities!

No e-comms are particularly safe or secure and never were, I hope Anonymous and Lulzsec have proved that, and its why the US government traditionally get nervous with things like Skype and other encryption that they can't tap into at will... although Skype's recent purchase by Microsoft now fixes that problem and gives them full access to Skype data, as Microsoft has admitted publicly.

And as for ordinary folk accessing other people's messages, that's as old as however long they've had answer phones built in. Anyone who knew somebody who worked for a mobile phone company saw voice mails accessed with a few engineer's trick-type key presses down the pub with their mates... something I first personally witnessed in the early 1990s. But how many people even set a PIN on their messages because it's inconvenient? :rolleyes:



Quote:
Meanwhile, News International has passed e-mails to the police which appear to show that payments to police officers were authorised by Mr Coulson during his tenure as News of the World editor, a job in which he succeeded Mrs Brooks.

BBC business editor Robert Peston said this shows the investigation into alleged illicit techniques used by the paper to obtain stories went much wider than an examination of phone hacking.


Something wrong here surely. Chances are the police were at it too, and it looks a lot like they were taking bribes here so the NOTW could carry on doing it? Not sure where they'll go from here after the CPS recently got busted breaking the law when it suited them to change the outcome of cases even without sufficient evidence... there's nothing much left in the way of public trust.

Either way they're all involved as you say, which would give us the possibility of an honest enquiry (if such a thing exists) ranging somewhere between slim and absolutely none.

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 Post subject: Re: Phone TAPPING
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:07 pm 
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Theres nothing new about this, there has been widespread tapping of the phones of Labour and Union Leaders, members and sympathisers since the war, bot just by the news papers but by the security services and Tory front organisations like the aims of industry, I myself had my mail and (landline) phone tapped throughout the 80s and 90s Its small wonder then that tapping phones and bribing the police for information has become so mundane for journalists, when back in the 70s and 80s they were part of a widespread campaign to monitor the various forms of opposition on behalf of the Tories in order to keep britain blue.

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 Post subject: Re: Phone TAPPING
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:42 pm 
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It's not a good thing to be tapping Siena Miller, Hugh Grant, John Prescott

....'it's in the public interest' barely washes



....but Millie Dowler?!?! deleting her f**kin messages....the effects that had on the family, making the police think she was alive.... listening in on 7/7 & Soham families

....that's a whole new depth to sink to


.....despicable & serious hard time should result for Coulsen & Brooks.... and the bent coppers.... but it won't cos Cameron's been the beneficiary & he knows which side his bread's buttered

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 Post subject: Re: Phone TAPPING
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:54 pm 
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Phones owned by relatives of dead UK soldiers were allegedly hacked by the News of the World, a national newspaper reports.

The Daily Telegraph claims the phone numbers of relatives of dead service personnel were found in the files of private investigator Glenn Mulcaire.

This comes after Prime Minister David Cameron said he would set up a public inquiry into alleged phone hacking.

Rupert Murdoch, the paper's owner, has called claims of hacking "deplorable".







dead soldier's families.... why do we need to know?

...why would anyone THINK we need to know??


Clearly, there was an appetite for this sh!t :angry:

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 Post subject: Re: Phone TAPPING
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:33 am 
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Resurrection Joe wrote:
.....despicable & serious hard time should result for Coulsen & Brooks.... and the bent coppers.... but it won't cos Cameron's been the beneficiary & he knows which side his bread's buttered


If only.

Yes, it's pretty bad... horribly bad with the latest developments, and I'd throw the book at them - what they did to those parents is unforgivable. As for the police I've less sympathy (the investigators aside), and you've got to wonder if the previous police enquiry found nothing because of payments received.

But these are insecure technologies... you can listen in to your average mobile phonecall, bring up an image of somebody's screen display or edit an e-passport on-the-fly on a low-end laptop. People need to realise that whether they set a PIN/password or not, their account is still accessible - only they've got a blank/default PIN instead... and these are easy to discover. I can only assume ignorance is the reason why proper care isn't taken. Just because a communication is in electronic form the public seem to assume it's safe and that's a big oversight that needs correcting.

People would laugh at you if you suggested they send their private snail mail in transparent envelopes - but this is no different yet it's widespread. :blink:

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 Post subject: Re: Phone TAPPING
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:12 am 
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People not securing their phone accounts is a basic systematic flaw (although i'm pretty sure there will be autocrackers out there to find the pin)

....people exploiting this is something separate



If someone leaves their door open, or drops their purse, that doesn't mean it's OK to take stuff


Opportunism is one thing, systematically setting out to exploit it is another, then looking to sell it is another again



This isn't about tech-security....this is about corporations paying jackals to capitalise on misery and distress....and selling it, to the c*nts who buy it and make them money

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 Post subject: Re: Phone TAPPING
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:37 am 
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Resurrection Joe wrote:
People not securing their phone accounts is a basic systematic flaw (although i'm pretty sure there will be autocrackers out there to find the pin)

....people exploiting this is something separate



If someone leaves their door open, or drops their purse, that doesn't mean it's OK to take stuff


Opportunism is one thing, systematically setting out to exploit it is another, then looking to sell it is another again


This isn't about tech-security....this is about corporations paying jackals to capitalise on misery and distress....and selling it, to the c*nts who buy it and make them money



There probably are, but I expect you'd need access to the handset and then you're getting a bit 007 for me... but that's not to say that it can't be done, a bit of social engineering and there's a chance.

But it's such a big problem (imo) because of the opportunistic unauthorised access to messages and that's because people don't know how best to use their gadgets. If we're to learn anything from this, and extract something good from the bad, let us at least get a grip on user security.

We already knew News Corp. had no morals. I wasn't suggesting that it was OK to take what doesn't belong to you, be that cash or information. And yes, you have to raise at least an eyebrow at the people who are the market for this kind of information.

So it is a two fold issue for me, and I doubt very much that your average journalist (outside of the management of someone like News Corp.) could hire a jackal to spy on people... my guess is that it's probably mostly fat, boozy hacks who are doing the bulk of it and it is so widespread because it's just so easy to do. Of course, high profile people would still probably get spied on but that's something they usually have the means to defend against, but jackals are more likely to be only be a small part of the problem imo.

Still just as serious, but you can never stop the true expert gun-for-hire types, but you can probably stop most of the general public at large from tapping into your private conversations.

None of which should save this current lot from the consequences of what they've done. The trouble is I can't see any of the masterminds going to prison, perhaps a scapegoat or three but probably nobody from the police and nobody from the government that's for sure.

And Murdoch? Unlikely he's above all that. Besides, he'll go live with Maxwell if they convict him. :lol: Besides, he owns their ass and could break any government such is the power of the press in this country... so again, maybe a scapegoat I can't see any real punishment or changes.

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 Post subject: Re: Phone TAPPING
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:17 pm 
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The NOTW is dead!!!

This sunday will be the last edition.

Expects the Sunday Sun to be out within 6 months.


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 Post subject: Re: NOTW is no more
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:19 pm 
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This Sunday's issue of the News of the World will be the last edition of the paper, News International chairman James Murdoch has said.

In the past few days, claims have been made that the paper authorised hacking into the mobile phones of murdered schoolgirl Milly Dowler and the families of 7/7 bombing victims.

Mr Murdoch said proceeds from the last edition would go to good causes.

Downing Street said it had no role or involvement in the decision.

The News of the World is the UK's biggest selling newspaper and has been in circulation for 168 years.

No advertisements will run in this weekend's paper - instead any advertising space will be donated to charities and good causes.

News International has refused to comment on rumours that The Sun could now become a seven-day-a-week operation.

"What happens to The Sun is a matter for the future", a spokeswoman for News International said. The Sun, another News International tabloid, is currently published from Monday to Saturday.

In a statement made to staff, Mr Murdoch said the good things the News of the World did "have been sullied by behaviour that was wrong - indeed, if recent allegations are true, it was inhuman and has no place in our company".

"The News of the World is in the business of holding others to account. But it failed when it came to itself."

He went on: "In 2006, the police focused their investigations on two men. Both went to jail. But the News of the World and News International failed to get to the bottom of repeated wrongdoing that occurred without conscience or legitimate purpose.

"Wrongdoers turned a good newsroom bad and this was not fully understood or adequately pursued.

"As a result, the News of the World and News International wrongly maintained that these issues were confined to one reporter.

"We now have voluntarily given evidence to the police that I believe will prove that this was untrue and those who acted wrongly will have to face the consequences. This was not the only fault.

"The paper made statements to Parliament without being in the full possession of the facts. This was wrong.

"The company paid out-of-court settlements approved by me. I now know that I did not have a complete picture when I did so. This was wrong and is a matter of serious regret."

He reiterated that the company was fully co-operating with the two ongoing police investigations.

He added: "While we may never be able to make up for distress that has been caused, the right thing to do is for every penny of the circulation revenue we receive this weekend to go to organisations - many of whom are long-term friends and partners - that improve life in Britain and are devoted to treating others with dignity."

Labour MP Tom Watson told Sky News it was "a victory for decent people up and down the land, and I say good riddance to the News of the World".

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 Post subject: Re: NOTW is no more
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:36 pm 
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Did enjoy how on the front page of the sun today it was a story about Rio Ferdinand love cheat a quick glance along the other headlines suprisingly none of them went with this story :lol:

I think they've jumped before they were put out of business


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 Post subject: Re: NOTW is no more
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:06 pm 
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JSP wrote:
Did enjoy how on the front page of the sun today it was a story about Rio Ferdinand love cheat a quick glance along the other headlines suprisingly none of them went with this story :lol:

I think they've jumped before they were put out of business



Also a marketing ploy by Murdoch to say "See I've done something.. now please don't sue ME, sue the ppl I just fired".

Also really sickening that deleting of message thing - you're tapping is one thing - breach of privacy etc, but that you're also actually directly meddling in private affairs for profit irregardless of outcome?! Some jail time wouldn't be remiss for that one.

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 Post subject: Re: NOTW is no more
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:48 pm 
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I feel sorry for the honest people that work there and hope that they don't just cast them off and find them jobs in another part of news corp as the guilty people who did this whole thing in the first place won't get lose their jobs over it. The actions of a few senior people in the paper some of whom wont face any charges because they have deniability have lost people jobs.

It's definitely a plow to save face by Murdoch he'll relaunch it as something else in a year anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: NOTW is no more
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:21 pm 
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Been a tough couple of weeks for Mr. Murdoch, first he sold MySpace for a $560-550 million loss now this.

Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy :coffee:


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 Post subject: Re: NOTW is no more
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:41 pm 
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SMOKESCREEN. The whole British news industry is rotten to the core, the NOTW was no better or worse than the rest, they just have less airs and graces about pretending to be honest, which is probably why they were the ones that got caught.
So now the NOTW and its staff have been sacrificed to protect the backs of the rest of them, especially News Group.
The NOTW wont really close anyway, it will just be rebranded as the Sun on Sunday

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 Post subject: Re: NOTW is no more
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:43 pm 
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Photograph: Martin Argles for the Guardian


Ed Miliband has suggested David Cameron's leadership over the News of the World phone-hacking scandal is mired by his "close relationships" with individuals embroiled in the affair at News International.

The Labour leader, who said he would not be buying News of the World this weekend, made his comments in a broadside against the prime minister, whom he accused of being "two steps" behind public opinion following a deluge of damning revelations over intrusive practices conducted by News of the World.

He quipped that Cameron and News Corporation chief Rupert Murdoch appeared to be the only two individuals in the entire country who believed that Rebekah Brooks, News International's chief executive, should stay in post. "I think they are both wrong and way out of step with public opinion," said Miliband. Cameron should put aside his relationships with Brooks and Murdoch, said Miliband, and come out and say right thing, "because that is what the country expects of the prime minister".

The prime minister told MPs on Wednesday that there may be more than one public inquiry into the affair – dealing with the police investigation and media behaviour. He is believed to be in dispute behind the scenes with his deputy prime minister, Nick Clegg, who has called for a judge to preside over at least one of the inquiries.

Miliband made the case for just one public inquiry to be conducted, led by a judge, with powers to compel witnesses and a remit that covered all the main issues to do with newspaper industry practices and the relationship between the police and newspapers.

"I think the country will be expecting more from the prime minister this time," Miliband told the BBC. "He's not been giving the leadership the country needs on this issue. He seems frankly two steps behind public opinion, where public opinion is. He does not seem to be working with the necessary speed of what people want to see."

Miliband, whose predecessors Tony Blair and Gordon Brown both had close links with Rupert Murdoch when in power, said politicians from all political hues should be available for the inquiry. He admitted that many had lessons to learn about political links with News Corporation and the wider media.

But he said that that important thing now was that politicians had to be willing to come out and speak the truth "without fear or favour".

"Our wish is that the prime minister is doing that now, because what we know is that the prime minister does have close relationships with a number of the people involved in this: Andy Coulson [his former director of communications who previously edited News of the World], Rebekah Brooks, who is at the centre of what has happened. I think the prime minister should ignore those relationships. He should come out and say the right thing because that is what the country expects of the prime minister."

Miliband reiterated his belief that those in the most senior positions at News International should be taking responsibility: "I do have to say that the only people in the country who seem to think that Rebekah Brooks should carry on in her position are Rupert Murdoch and David Cameron. I think they are both wrong and way out of step with public opinion."

Miliband said there needed to be a "real sense" that responsibility was being taken. An inquiry would allow the reputation of the British press to be restored and the reputation of the police upheld.

The hacking controversy dominated discussion at the start of Thursday morning's cabinet meeting, although no decisions have yet been taken on what form public inquiries will take, according to a Downing Street spokesman.

Asked about the most recent allegations concerning military families, the prime minister's official spokesman said: "If it's true, this would represent a gross intrusion in people's private lives, the private lives of bereaved families, and it would be a truly appalling case."

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