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 Post subject: Re: Clarkson gets Public Sector Workers and himself mixed up
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:04 pm 
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Mr Spock wrote:
...history says evolution works better and we forget these days the difference that the Labour movement has made to all our lives over the years and I know many Labour Politicians, Ive met Benn, Mikado, Skinner, Ann Coffey, Andrew Bennett, Harold Wilson, Tony LLoyd, Jack McConnell, (I was at Uni with him) Glyn Ford Not one of them fits your description, theyre all as frustrated as you and I, that Labour Governments cant make bigger changes they have to compromise to get ellected they have to get elected to make a difference no form of coalition Government would improve anything as for 'token policies' the minimum wage wasnt, the illusion is that there is no difference, perpetrated by the Tory media to protect themselves from a repeat of the 1945 election.


Erm it might used to have been like that, and if it still is then it's back-benchers with no real power. Kinnock is my earliest memory of Labour let's not forget Thatcher was the only prime minister I remember before Major. So imho, however different they might used to have been they aren't so different now. Little differences include more help for the poorest with Labour and more corporate tax breaks with Tory but they still both do what they are told by bankers and big business and above and they're both signing from the same hymn sheet these days.

And nevermind a Tory trick, in my adult life time there's no difference between them to me. I always favoured spoiling my paper to get a coalition but as soon as you get one ... yep... they all do the same thing regardless of what they said they would do.

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 Post subject: Re: Clarkson gets Public Sector Workers and himself mixed up
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:59 pm 
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Kinnock, known to many in the movement as Ramsey at the time, (Ramsey MacDonald went into the disastrous coalition of the early thirties whos cuts wrecked our economy - theres a theme there by the way, the two worst Governments in living memory have been coalitions), yet he was hours away from winning the 1992 election when the Tory Media put out headlines about how left wing he was and how much of a disaster that would be, scaring off just enough people to condemn the country to 4 years of John Majors corrupt moraly bankrupt regime (remember black Tuesday and 15% interest rates)
Before him there was Micheal Foot who was vilified for wearing an expensive SAVILLE ROW winter coat at the cenotaph, whos manifesto was wonderfully progressive but was called the longest suicide note in history but would actually have prevented many of the problems we now have
Click The Link...http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/10/labour.margaretthatcher
Click The Link...http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1983/1983-labour-manifesto.shtml


do some research on the achievements of Clem Atlees Government between 1945 and 1951 and how they lost the 1951 election despite getting 51% of the vote

And if you honestly think that thing wouldnt have been any different had the Tories won the 1997 election instead of Labour your kidding yourself, can you imagine what our health service and schools would be like now at the very least?

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 Post subject: Re: Clarkson gets Public Sector Workers and himself mixed up
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:36 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Clarkson gets Public Sector Workers and himself mixed up
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:51 am 
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RE: Jeremy Clarkson.... i am staggered by the scope of this nation's humour failure :doh:

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his comment that the strikes were "like being back in the 70s" which made him feel "at home, somehow".

Dave Prentis, general secretary of Unison, said: "Clarkson's comments on The One Show were totally outrageous, and they cannot be tolerated.

"An apology is not enough - we are calling on the BBC to sack Jeremy Clarkson immediately.

"We are seeking urgent legal advice about what further action we can take against him and the BBC, and whether or not his comments should be referred to the police."

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 Post subject: Re: Clarkson gets Public Sector Workers and himself mixed up
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:03 am 
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In his apology, Mr Clarkson said: "I didn't for a moment intend these remarks to be taken seriously - as I believe is clear if they're seen in context.

"If the BBC and I have caused any offence, I'm quite happy to apologise for it alongside them."

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 Post subject: Re: Clarkson gets Public Sector Workers and himself mixed up
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:34 am 
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Resurrection Joe wrote:
In his apology, Mr Clarkson said: "I didn't for a moment intend these remarks to be taken seriously - as I believe is clear if they're seen in context.

"If the BBC and I have caused any offence, I'm quite happy to apologise for it alongside them."


Have you typed "why am I striking" into youtube :lol: nsfw

I think it's clear Clarkson was joking and it's pathetic how people have got on his back. By all means have a go at him for a being a n0b in general, but for that :| get a grip.

As for Tory/labour nothing will change my mind. We'd be in the same position now whoever was in. They might take the money in a different fashion but that's where we'd be. As Con said, they all answer to the same people.

What we need is a completely new party that offers something different and will stick to it. But that's never going to happen.

PS

That Deborah whatever her name is from Dragons Den made some good points last night. I've been saying for years the problems in this (your) country all stem from education.


Last edited by Mr Carrot on Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Clarkson gets Public Sector Workers and himself mixed up
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:01 am 
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Resurrection Joe wrote:




Did I ever tell you about the time I got into an argument with Derek Hatton at a conference in London and Billy Bragg waded in on my side?

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 Post subject: Re: Clarkson gets Public Sector Workers and himself mixed up
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:06 pm 
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No.... but Billy did

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 Post subject: Re: Clarkson gets Public Sector Workers and himself mixed up
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:22 pm 
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Resurrection Joe wrote:
No.... but Billy did



Hatton wasnt a nice man back then, Ive no idea if hes improved, Billy was great, there was me a young lad who had been picked on by Hatton and even though I was more than holding my own, BB who was in the same workshop waded in without even knowing who I was or having seen me before. Ive only ever seen him on TV or stage since then, but it created an impression.

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 Post subject: Re: Clarkson gets Public Sector Workers and himself mixed up
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:37 pm 
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Click The Link...http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b018377x/This_Week_01_12_2011/


Billy Bragg v's Michael Portillo last night

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 Post subject: Re: Clarkson gets Public Sector Workers and himself mixed up
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:14 pm 
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Half a dozen or so have gone from the Tories to Labour, I think its less the other way, lots of Liberals have gone Labour in disgust at what they are part of which kind of contradicts your argument, and had I time I could spend a week listing the differences. The problem is that the British people are being manipulated into not voting for Labour until they 'moderate' their policies, but frankly as the last two years have proved Id rather have Gordon Brown and a watered down Labour Government than what we have now.

in terms of growth in GDP that difference makes a huge difference, its the difference between 100000 families being lifted out of poverty and 100000 families going back into poverty, its the difference between thousands of jobs being created and thousand lost, its the difference between our manufacturing sector growing and it shrinking.

labour may not be perfect, but at worst they are by a long way the lesser of two evils



Maybe so, ranging from vastly differing points of view to the slightest little meaningless difference... imho it's all part of the illusion of choice, and all the time you're putting all your energy into arguing the toss between the *current* political parties (EG I have no idea of their history 50 odd years ago etc.) you're risking missing the bigger picture (that there is no choice except the odd minor policy adjustment each in their own tory/lab ruling party cycle) and continue to allow to let them do what they are doing to us. IF the Labour party were significantly different then that change was lost imo as the Labour party has been taken over by individuals with the same bosses, the same paymasters, the same influences, the same views (even if they are dressed differently or vary by 1%), etc. as their fake 'rivals'.

We need a replacement system, not a tweak... we should evolve democracy has proved be to dictatorship when in the hands of dishonest greedy people. And we must have enforcement/oversight to make sure only the actions that benefit the people are possible to enact... no more weapons deals that cost more to cancel than to take delivery of something that's of no use or we can't afford to use, no more PFI etc. What we need isn't a Labour, Conservative or Lib Dem win if you are genuinely concerned in the best interests of the people. It's a lose/lose/lose situation... it's the same situation no matter who you vote for... show me the choice in that? The reason the Lib Dems were (previously) so popular is that people thought that they might be different to Lab/Tory, but unfortunately they were merely the reaction to the public getting sick of the main two parties... just more deception, and backed up by the actions of the Lib Dems since they came to co-power.

This coalition government have already borrowed an extra £101Bn so far... so much for cost cutting. :rolleyes: It's just another part of the long-term, on-going scam disguised as cutting back this time whereas sometimes the scam looks like they're expanding but it's all the same scam imo. It's wealth transference from ordinary people which is paid to the richest - just the same as it always was.

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 Post subject: Re: Clarkson gets Public Sector Workers and himself mixed up
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:28 pm 
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Peoples Politics do change as they get older and their experiences change the way they see things.
Look at Tony Benn, he went from being on the extreme so called moderate wing of the Labour Party to being on what some would call the hard left. My granny was a dyed in the wool working class Tory, but in her later years became quite left wing because of her disgust at what Thatcher did to this country. I once met a former tory councillor at a Labour conference who had gone the same way. Neil Kinnock went from left wing fire brand to moderate .

People who have never met and spent any time with a real politician in their lives are too quick to make generalisations based on the rubbish that our newspapers print, our radios and televisions broadcast and people with vested interests publish, including on the internet.

Our system will never change because the British people wont allow it anymore than they would elect Michael Foot because the huge change in direction he offered scared them. The only way to get change is to get involved and do your bit

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 Post subject: Re: Clarkson gets Public Sector Workers and himself mixed up
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:19 pm 
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Mr Spock wrote:
Peoples Politics do change as they get older and their experiences change the way they see things.
Look at Tony Benn, he went from being on the extreme so called moderate wing of the Labour Party to being on what some would call the hard left. My granny was a dyed in the wool working class Tory, but in her later years became quite left wing because of her disgust at what Thatcher did to this country. I once met a former tory councillor at a Labour conference who had gone the same way. Neil Kinnock went from left wing fire brand to moderate .

People who have never met and spent any time with a real politician in their lives are too quick to make generalisations based on the rubbish that our newspapers print, our radios and televisions broadcast and people with vested interests publish, including on the internet.

Our system will never change because the British people wont allow it anymore than they would elect Michael Foot because the huge change in direction he offered scared them. The only way to get change is to get involved and do your bit


I still think that there's very little difference between the whole 'left wing - moderate - right wing', that's partly what I meant by illusion of choice. It's still largely a right-wing agenda that gets enacted regardless which continues to allow the rich to plunder and terrorise the poor. Moving camps is just a distraction... if they were so very different as you suggest you'd never get people switching between them or at least it'd be rare and for widely known proper reasons. A good EG was the expenses scandal... they were ALL stealing... we don't have an honest party so what makes you think that any of them are being honest with you about other things? You or I could/would have gone to prison for theft or fraud... or both... yet you think these guys - in any party - are the ones to look to for leadership? Somehow *cough*TV/media/PR*cough* they've hypnotised everyone, even the most politically interested people are still devoting all their time and energy voting for the same entity regardless of who has been picked by them to best represent them to the people.... you don't like this guy, ok vote for this guy - either way up they still win and remain in power as our malevolent overlords. The whole current political system is an utterly pointless charade to disguise the fact we live in a right-wing police state dictatorship. It's the policy Conservative's dream about regardless of who says what - that's the system you're voting for, regardless of which party.

I agree the media have much to answer for, but for different reasons. IMHO all the debates on all sides are another illusion to stop you sussing out that they are really the same people behind the scenes being kept powerful through the now three parties they are funding and have working for them obeying their orders. You can't help noticing that money WILL flow from the poor to the rich regardless of whichever MP/party's public policy. Personally I've actually been worse and worse off under each successive government regardless of who they were or Labour's promise/lies to have my best interests at heart.

And not that I'm an expert on him, but I expect we the public won't elect Foot because he's just more of the same old corrupt screw-the-people brigade that we're all sick to death of having to endure.

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 Post subject: Re: Clarkson gets Public Sector Workers and himself mixed up
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:36 pm 
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They wont elect Foot because he died a few years ago, they wouldnt elect him then because he was regarded as too nice, not strong enough compared to Thatcher, too left wing, not bothered enough with his appearance or presentation and he was exactly the opposite of your idea of a politician

Click The Link...http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/932797.stm

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 Post subject: Re: Clarkson gets Public Sector Workers and himself mixed up
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:54 pm 
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Mr Spock wrote:
They wont elect Foot because he died a few years ago, they wouldnt elect him then because he was regarded as too nice, not strong enough compared to Thatcher, too left wing, not bothered enough with his appearance or presentation and he was exactly the opposite of your idea of a politician

Click The Link...http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/932797.stm


I'm trying to resist saying the only good MP is a dead one...

But anyway, you're still living in the past, and while you might be able to name a current MP who is worthy of leading this country? I sure as hell can't. And even if I could, I would know they belonged to the same, corrupt system and it's authority hierarchies. I don't want more of the same and anybody connected with that mob surely would be.

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 Post subject: Re: Clarkson gets Public Sector Workers and himself mixed up
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:44 pm 
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:doh: I give up

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 Post subject: Re: Clarkson gets Public Sector Workers and himself mixed up
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:48 pm 
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Mr Spock wrote:
:doh: I give up


:D I wasn't trying to be stubborn on purpose, we just completely disagree.

I can't say what Foot was or wasn't as he was well before my time - I remember the floppy fringe as a kid but that's about it. And I do agree the Labour/Conservative approach differs in slight ways... Labour will usually avoid hitting the poorest quite so hard while the Conservatives don't really care who they leave skint etc. But these are tiny differences, it's like they're both killing you but one grants you the 'favour' of dying slightly slower. Yeah cheers for that. :rolleyes: The biggest difference to me is their PR, something else that unites them in using the same tricks/lies/strategies etc. to gain power before not acting on it.

Maybe you were right in the past, all I can say with any certainty is I've seen no evidence of that in the past 20-odd years.



And Clarkson must be wetting himself laughing. Like Joe said, a new series of Top Gear must be due. :rolleyes:

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 Post subject: Re: Clarkson gets Public Sector Workers and himself mixed up
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:51 pm 
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conscience wrote:
I can't say what Foot was or wasn't as he was well before my time - I remember the floppy fringe as a kid but that's about it.


fringe?

Image :blink:

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 Post subject: Re: Clarkson gets Public Sector Workers and himself mixed up
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:59 pm 
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Resurrection Joe wrote:
conscience wrote:
I can't say what Foot was or wasn't as he was well before my time - I remember the floppy fringe as a kid but that's about it.


fringe?

Image :blink:


Fair point. :lol:

I didn't realise it was a Bobby Charlton comb over job, just remember it hanging over his face when he was speaking animatedly.

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 Post subject: Re: Clarkson gets Public Sector Workers and himself mixed up
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:57 pm 
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Clarkson has now been suspended over his latest allegations which are that he punched a producer in the face while filming a scene for the latest series.

The rest of the series has been pulled and if he's found to have done it the general feeling is he'll be sacked.


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