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 Post subject: Re: England Vs Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:32 pm 
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ManMoreFyahYoo wrote:
borocooper wrote:
I'd agree. He's been very consistant.

He's been consistent too... shockingly so. he'll be rubbish but score at least one.


I think he was talking Cole


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 Post subject: Re: England Vs Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:36 pm 
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Mr Carrot wrote:
Hart is Englands best player, he is about the only one that would walk into any of the worlds top sides.


For a start he wouldn't get in the Germany or Spanish side and he'd struggle to get into the Italy side and possibly the France side.

Joe Hart has proven nothing so far other than that he is developing into a very good goalkeeper but to say he'd suddenly walk into any national team (therefore making him the best goal keeper in world football) is a step to far. I think we've potentially got a real gem in Hart but he's still got work to do but the best thing is with City he'll get European experience in a team likely to win trophies. We've not had a keeper who's used to winning and playing in Europe since Seaman

Ashley Cole is the only one I can think who would probably get into everyones side and thats only because Germany could switch Lahm to RB and play Cole at LB. Spain would probably take him over Alba & France would take him over Clichey/Evra.

Rooney would probably get into most sides but there are some real quality strikers at this tournament he'd probably start for Spain over Torres but not sure he'd get ahead of Benzema/Gomez.


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 Post subject: Re: England Vs Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:37 pm 
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Mr Carrot wrote:
Hart is Englands best player, he is about the only one that would walk into any of the worlds top sides.


What side would Cole not get into? Hart wouldn't get into the Real Madrid team, and arguably Inter Milan and Juventus.

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 Post subject: Re: England Vs Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:46 pm 
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Mr Carrot wrote:
ManMoreFyahYoo wrote:
borocooper wrote:
I'd agree. He's been very consistant.

He's been consistent too... shockingly so. he'll be rubbish but score at least one.


I think he was talking Cole


Sorry yeah, didnt see Serb's post. Mine was about Cole :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: England Vs Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:27 pm 
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Have to say, I did think Hart was a little bit weak on the first Sweden goal...he got quite a lot on it but it didn't seem like he got any strength behind it.

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 Post subject: Re: England Vs Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:54 pm 
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borocooper wrote:
Have to say, I did think Hart was a little bit weak on the first Sweden goal...he got quite a lot on it but it didn't seem like he got any strength behind it.


I seem to remember him being a bit dodgy in the ECL games for City as well remember him palming some shots out into the penalty area that Gomez snapped up.

The great thing with Hart is mistakes don't seem to both him he just dusts himself off and gets on with it that sort of attitude is something a top keeper needs. You only have to look at how shakey England keepers would get if they made a mistake in the past against France he dropped his first catch after that every thing stuck to him or got punched away with good distance.

I think people just need to be a bit more realistic with him but because he's English and people like Jamie Redknapp say he's as good as anyone out there people lap it up. We've got a really good young goalkeeper who hopefully by the WC in 2014 could be mentioned in the same breath as Cassilas & Buffon.


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 Post subject: Re: England Vs Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:14 pm 
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From what I have seen of him, which granted is little. He's as good as any keeper around. All keepers make mistakes, it part and parcel of being the last line. It's how few you make and how you deal with the ones.

Maybe apart from Munich, most club sides would take him, especially at his age.

Personally, I think he's quality


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 Post subject: Re: England Vs Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:37 pm 
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Would you take him at Utd over David De Gea? Considering that De Gea is younger has similar stats in terms of shot save percentages & is arguably at his age a better keeper than Hart was.

I really like Joe Hart it's fantastic to have a keeper we trust in goal again I just think we need to be a bit more realistic as to how good he is. If you don't watch a lot of European football you can't say he'd walk into any team in the world I've not seen anything that makes him stand out above the top keepers at this tournament.

If for whatever reason he was put up for sale at £20m by Man City tomorrow I don't think you'd see Barca, Real, Munich, Juventus falling over themselves to take him because they already have keepers on par with him.


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 Post subject: Re: England Vs Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:44 pm 
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He is good, but I don't think his mistakes are as rare as people think, it's just that because he's an English golden boy, the mistakes don't get picked up on or reported. He's a good young keeper, with lots of potential, but he's nowhere near the finished article yet.

I think there's quite a few others around that would have saved that goal against France, for example.

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 Post subject: Re: England Vs Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:46 pm 
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I am sure that I read that Ferguson said that one of his biggest regrets of his time managing Utd was not signing Hart when he had the chance...


I wouldn't swap him for anyone. He may not be the best goalie in the world currently...but he's on the way there. He's made some amazing saves for City over the last 2 seasons, and won us games with key saves at big moments.

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 Post subject: Re: England Vs Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:55 pm 
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If Hart was available when we bough DG, I don't think we would have bought DG.

I think the opposite, people are hard on him becasue he's English. All keepers make mistakes. I have never known one not to.

And I think all those teams would take him. That's why I said it. Apart from Munich. Who I think also have a fantastic keeper.


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 Post subject: Re: England Vs Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:59 pm 
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Monty wrote:
I am sure that I read that Ferguson said that one of his biggest regrets of his time managing Utd was not signing Hart when he had the chance...

I wouldn't swap him for anyone. He may not be the best goalie in the world currently...but he's on the way there. He's made some amazing saves for City over the last 2 seasons, and won us games with key saves at big moments.


I think the quote was we were offered the chance to sign him for £100k when he was at Shrewsbury and turned him down with hindsight it was a mistake as we ended up having to spend £18m on De Gea when VDS retired. There's no guarentee that he'd be as good as he is now if we'd of signed him but it's refreshingly honest to see Fergie admit to something like that. Fergie always said his biggest regret was letting Gazza slip through his fingers we had him all but signed Fergie went on holiday and then Spurs bought his mum a house and the rest is history.

Of course City fans wouldn't swap him for anyone because to them he's one of their own. He might of been signed from another club at a young age but you can see he loves City and what they've given him unlike a lot of the other players at the club now he's had to graft through a lower league academy before moving to City.

I just think in England we get fed a lot of this best league in the world nonsense through our media because thats how the premiership sells itself. The easiest way to see if someone is genuinely the best player in the world is when Real Madrid or Barcelona go into proper over drive to tap them up :p


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 Post subject: Re: England Vs Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:34 pm 
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I think keepers more than any other position, are an irrational commodity.

When you're club/country has one you trust, you keep him, there may be ones theoretically better in terms of 'stats' but you can't quantify 'relationships'.

Hart (imo) is better than his age i.e. he'll continue to improve, his handling/command isn't great but he has bulletproof confidence, strong resilience & great mental strength.

Looking at other keepers & projecting how their 'saves' would help your team, a 'grass is always greener' philosophy, invariably destroys a stability.

In short, if you think your keeper is 'pretty good' don't f*ck with it, because you think you've seen one who's 'really good' i.e. i think City, United, Everton, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle, Swansea etc. would be foolish trying to upgrade as form, comfort & confidence play more of a role with keepers than anyone else

There is no 'best' because transplant them elsewhere & they can easily fall apart.

Is Hart perfect? No but so what?

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 Post subject: Re: England Vs Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:56 pm 
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borocooper wrote:
Mr Carrot wrote:
ManMoreFyahYoo wrote:
borocooper wrote:
I'd agree. He's been very consistant.

He's been consistent too... shockingly so. he'll be rubbish but score at least one.


I think he was talking Cole


Sorry yeah, didnt see Serb's post. Mine was about Cole :thumbup:

Oho - well mine was about Wazza :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: England Vs Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:55 am 
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Just for the record..I do think Hart is very very good, especially given his age. I just don't think he's "the best keeper in the world" as Jamie Redknapp likes to kepe saying. I don't think he'd get in Real's team ahead of Casillas, I don't think he's better than Buffon, I don't think he's better than Júlio César, or Neuer. I think he's about on par with De Gea now that he's stopped dropping clangers every other week.

So I don't really think there's any way he'd be walking in to the top teams in the world (not just me that needs their head testing!). But he will almost certainly maintain his position as number 1 at a potential best club. As long as he doesn't do a Craig Gordon...

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 Post subject: Re: England Vs Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:01 am 
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borocooper wrote:
Just for the record..I do think Hart is very very good, especially given his age. I just don't think he's "the best keeper in the world" as Jamie Redknapp likes to kepe saying. I don't think he'd get in Real's team ahead of Casillas, I don't think he's better than Buffon, I don't think he's better than Júlio César, or Neuer. I think he's about on par with De Gea now that he's stopped dropping clangers every other week.

So I don't really think there's any way he'd be walking in to the top teams in the world (not just me that needs their head testing!). But he will almost certainly maintain his position as number 1 at a potential best club. As long as he doesn't do a Craig Gordon...


Wasn't the head testing comment about Carroll vs Rooney :shrug:


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 Post subject: Re: England Vs Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:11 am 
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I thought it was just with regards to anything that seemed mental.

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 Post subject: Re: England Vs Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:13 am 
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borocooper wrote:
I thought it was just with regards to anything that seemed mental.


:lol:

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