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 Post subject: Re: England v Italy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:13 am 
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borocooper wrote:
Someone just showed me this

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...spot on.

:lol:

Who the f**k made up those stats?

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 Post subject: Re: England v Italy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:16 am 
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JSP wrote:
Carrick probably would of made much difference the problem all the way through the tournament was the defence had no pace meaning they had to sit deep and not allow space in behind us. This means the midfield is deep so the strikers get isolated and since we don't have buckets of pace up top or wingers who can carry the ball we're pretty easy to defend against. Teams just play the entire game in our half knocking it around in front of our back 4 because until they come into the penalty box we don't press.

If the defence were trying to play a deep line yesterday they were doing a shocking job. Lost count of the amount of times Pirlo played a ball over the top into acres of space behind the defence. Must have been between 10-15.

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 Post subject: Re: England v Italy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:27 am 
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Out of interest, what do people expect up front for us now?

Welbeck and Carroll did alright overall. Rooney looked completely out of sorts but grabbed a goal. As JSP said, he really does seem to be nothing more than a goal getter now and any hope people (like me) had of him being that little magician between midfield and attack seems dead. Do you think we stick with him and Welbeck and try to figure out a midfield that works behind it? Or go one up and try to fit more of these young midfielders in a 5? Cleverly Wilshere and another in the centre?

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 Post subject: Re: England v Italy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:33 am 
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Serbinator wrote:
You think he was England's best player of the tournament or just the Italy game?


I'd probably say the tournament alongside Gerrard who's passing at least gave us a chance to counter attack quickly.

I think he did his job well throughout and when he did get caught out of position he managed to recover just in time. Don't seem to remember any of the goals we conceeded being his fault.

Last night I think he struggled with Balotelli who was excellant for Italy gave a master class in leading the line very similar to a performance he had for City against Utd in the FA Cup semi where he just dominated our defence for the whole game. You say about Italy getting behind us easily when we did come out that was true but we were exactly right up on the half way line we were still fairly deep trying to play a pretty ropey looking offside trap at times :no:

Those stats cards are amazing once again it comes back to WC 2010 before the Germany game the MOTD pundits sitting there discussing how not one of the Germany players would get into the England side. Our whole country is deluded as to how good these players actually are they fail at a tournament then by the time the next tournament comes we expect them not to fail again.


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 Post subject: Re: England v Italy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:36 am 
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borocooper wrote:
Out of interest, what do people expect up front for us now?

Welbeck and Carroll did alright overall. Rooney looked completely out of sorts but grabbed a goal. As JSP said, he really does seem to be nothing more than a goal getter now and any hope people (like me) had of him being that little magician between midfield and attack seems dead. Do you think we stick with him and Welbeck and try to figure out a midfield that works behind it? Or go one up and try to fit more of these young midfielders in a 5? Cleverly Wilshere and another in the centre?


I really don't know Roy loves the 4-4-2 he's played it everywhere he's been but it really needs a man who can drop deep and help the midfield something Rooney did last night at times it was like he was playing as part of a 3. I think we have to stick with Rooney/Welbeck and hope that there partnership continues to grow as Carroll is a plan B.


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 Post subject: Re: England v Italy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:37 am 
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I'd stick with DWelbz and Rooney as I think they're the best two forwards England have, plus playing together at club level hopefully their partnership will only get better (think it shows signs of being immense at times, but not consistently).

Have to say, I think Carroll is a massive donkey on the pitch but I actually thought he did quite well this tournament. Won almost everything in the air and got himself about quite well.

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 Post subject: Re: England v Italy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:45 am 
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Yeah Carroll has been woeful for Liverpool, but he did have a tiny bit of form towards the end of the season..carried it through to this I thought. You never know, he might turn out useful in some capacity.

He seemed to manage to win headers without giving away free kicks too, which was a novelty for England I think.

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 Post subject: Re: England v Italy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:46 am 
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The idea of playing people like Carroll depresses me. He epitomizes all that is wrong with the English game

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 Post subject: Re: England v Italy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:47 am 
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England were shocking all tournament...it's hardly a shock that we went out like that without a whimper.

As for someone blaming "Hart for not getting close to any penalties" you want your head looking at. The penalty taker is always favourite in a shoot out, and we shouldn't have even been there anyway, cos Hart and the posts kept us in the game.

Blame the two Ashley's for the penalty defeat, never a goalie. Blame the awful Rooney who looked so far off the pace, the midfield who couldn't keep possession. If City had played like that, I would have been embarrassed.

If Hart played for anyone other than City, nothing would have been said.

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 Post subject: Re: England v Italy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:48 am 
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idontfeardeath wrote:
The idea of playing people like Carroll depresses me. He epitomizes all that is wrong with the English game


At least he doesn't dive. :p

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 Post subject: Re: England v Italy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:48 am 
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Monty wrote:
idontfeardeath wrote:
The idea of playing people like Carroll depresses me. He epitomizes all that is wrong with the English game


At least he doesn't dive. :p


Did you miss the Liverpool vs Newcastle game?

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 Post subject: Re: England v Italy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:49 am 
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Monty wrote:
If Hart played for anyone other than City, nothing would have been said.


:lol: You're having a laugh right?

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 Post subject: Re: England v Italy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:50 am 
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idontfeardeath wrote:
Monty wrote:
idontfeardeath wrote:
The idea of playing people like Carroll depresses me. He epitomizes all that is wrong with the English game


At least he doesn't dive. :p


Did you miss the Liverpool vs Newcastle game?


Probably. Was probably watching City.

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 Post subject: Re: England v Italy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:51 am 
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idontfeardeath wrote:
Monty wrote:
If Hart played for anyone other than City, nothing would have been said.


:lol: You're having a laugh right?


Nope. It's a forum full of Utd fans. I wouldn't expect anything else.

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 Post subject: Re: England v Italy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:52 am 
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idontfeardeath wrote:
The idea of playing people like Carroll depresses me. He epitomizes all that is wrong with the English game


How do you mean?

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 Post subject: Re: England v Italy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:54 am 
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Monty wrote:
idontfeardeath wrote:
Monty wrote:
If Hart played for anyone other than City, nothing would have been said.


:lol: You're having a laugh right?


Nope. It's a forum full of Utd fans. I wouldn't expect anything else.

Full of United fans who pretty much all like Hart despite playing for City, to be fair.

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 Post subject: Re: England v Italy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:56 am 
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Serbinator wrote:
Monty wrote:
idontfeardeath wrote:
Monty wrote:
If Hart played for anyone other than City, nothing would have been said.


:lol: You're having a laugh right?


Nope. It's a forum full of Utd fans. I wouldn't expect anything else.

Full of United fans who pretty much all like Hart despite playing for City, to be fair.


You are right.

Just think its a disgrace to blame Hart for going out.

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 Post subject: Re: England v Italy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:56 am 
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Monty wrote:
idontfeardeath wrote:
Monty wrote:
If Hart played for anyone other than City, nothing would have been said.


:lol: You're having a laugh right?


Nope. It's a forum full of Utd fans. I wouldn't expect anything else.


You're right it is.

Firstly - Most of us like Hart
Secondly - It's a good natured forum look at the criticism Rooney has taken.
Thirdly - Hart was massively over rated this tournament I don't blame him for the penalty shoot out however he didn't inspire confidence kicked many balls out of play and dropped many crosses.

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 Post subject: Re: England v Italy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:57 am 
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Monty wrote:
England were shocking all tournament...it's hardly a shock that we went out like that without a whimper.

Depends on where your expectations were beforehand. If you'd deluded yourself into thinking the current England side could go and suddenly play some liquid football after years of playing awful football, then yes, they were shocking.

If, however, you were realistic and realised the teams shortcomings, then I think they actually did OK.

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 Post subject: Re: England v Italy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:58 am 
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idontfeardeath wrote:
Monty wrote:
idontfeardeath wrote:
Monty wrote:
If Hart played for anyone other than City, nothing would have been said.


:lol: You're having a laugh right?


Nope. It's a forum full of Utd fans. I wouldn't expect anything else.


You're right it is.

Firstly - Most of us like Hart
Secondly - It's a good natured forum look at the criticism Rooney has taken.
Thirdly - Hart was massively over rated this tournament I don't blame him for the penalty shoot out however he didn't inspire confidence kicked many balls out of play and dropped many crosses.


I think it was his kicking which surprised/disappointed me the most..I can't think of many times he actually found a team mate.

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